Board Thread:The Flash discussions/@comment-13895380-20160824190348/@comment-13895380-20160825134553

Kaestal wrote: AlphaOfAlphas wrote: Kaestal wrote: Not really, what many seem to forget is that Eobard during the murder of Nora was distracted with that and Present Barry caught him off guard before going to town, the scene where Barry made his taunts to Eobard probably took under a second, or even if it didn't he was too stunned to do anything.

The fight against Eobard during his "origin story" was also unbalanced by experience if not speed, Barry was simply better tactically than the young Eobard, even though Eobard seemed to be a fair bit faster.

I'd say the only reason Barry "kicked Eobard Thawne's teeth in" was because he was surprised and couldn't recover from being punched in the face repeatedly in time. Looking back at it, it's true that current Barry blindsided Revere Flash, who already looked dizzy from the tackle.

But I have to disagree that him beating Eobard Thawne was due to inexperience on Eobard's part. That was the episode where Eobard learned of Barry's identity. From what Eobard explained in season 1, we know that him and future flash were already equal and couldn't beat each other until Eobard found out Barry's name. This means that not only was Eobard as fast as future Flash at this point but tactically, neither of them were smart enough to out-think the other. There's no way future Barry is a weaker tactician than current Barry.

That was another instance of the Reverse Flash getting taken out by current Barry with just a tackle. He couldn't recover after that. I mean during the episode where Eobard appears in season 2 with the whole "where are we GIDEON?"

That was the Eobard that was beaten tactically, he wasn't as experienced as Barry was in season 2 due to being from a earlier time. That's your argument for saying Eobard was inexperienced? Eobard was probably already way smarter than Barry at that time and literally went back in time because he fought future Flash many times and they couldn't beat each other. He also already knew about Tachyons at this point.

RF didn't get tactically beaten by current Barry that episode. The only excuse possible is that current Flash caught him from a different direction...but RF knew Barry was chasing him and should have been able to dodge him if he was fast enough.

RF: You really think you're fast enough to stop me?

current Flash: Let's find out.

RF: Catch me if you can!

And current Barry did catch him. No excuse.

When Zoom had a slight head start in front of Barry when he killed his dad, Barry couldn't catch him. Zoom and Barry were probably faster than "Reverse Flash Returns" RF at this point, meaning that they are faster than the future Barry (but maybe not future Flash when he saved himself) at this time too.

RF asked "where are we Gideon?" because he didn't know where he was -- because he needed confirmation. Remember, him and future Barry at this point were already equal and the reason he is searching for his identity is because they couldn't beat each other. They were already proven as equals at this time. The fact that RF was still searching for Flash's identity at this time means that he wasn't quite sure of where he was going. He only knew the time period of the Flash's origins. In that episode, he learned the specifics.

Remember, Barry has to remember clearly what time and place he wants to go. In other words, you have to be focused and have a clear idea of where you want to go when you're travelling through time using the speed force. All the times Barry went back in time purposefully (e.g. to try to save his mother in season 1, to go back in time to get RF's help to gain speed, to save his mom in season 2) he knew exactly where he was going -- he was physically there at those moments and literally had memories of those moments. The RF on the other hand went  to a timeline where he wasn't even born yet -- he had no personal memories to focus on.

I know they didn't show it, but I'm pretty darn sure RF had no problems going back to his home, where he knew exactly where and when he wanted to go. When he went back in time to kill kid Barry, he didn't even have to second guess himself because he already knew where, when and who he wanted to attack. This time, he was already there.

@ImperiexSeed

Hmm, makes sense. Zoom could be faster than both of them. Current Barry not only used the Tachyon to get faster but he gained a new acceptance with the speed force that we don't even know if Future Barry had.

But if Future Barry could go as fast as he wanted, that means RF had to be able to as well, since they're equals. If that's the case, it has to be an inconsistency because after current Flash tagged him, RF theoretically shouldn't be able to tag him again considering that he could go at any speed.

Back @Kaestal

If you're agreeing that future Barry and his equal RF could go at any speed in the future, how are you saying that Harrison (speed force lacking) RF is faster than the original RF? You're getting even more confusing by saying future Barry is faster than current Barry but original RF (future Barry's equal) isn't. :P

I'd say it's safe to say current Barry is faster than Zoom, dying Eliza, Harrison Reverse Flash (already proven Zoom is faster than this season 1 foe), "Reverse Flash Returns" RF (and thus future Barry at this point in time) and Jay Garrick. Still not sure if he's faster than future Barry that later saves his child self though (hence this thread); it's possible that current RF couldn't recover from current Barry's surprise tackle but that's only the case if future RF couldn't go as fast as he wanted. Tbh future Barry and RF didn't look much faster than current Barry, so that makes sense.