Board Thread:New on Arrowverse Wiki/@comment-807326-20160206040643/@comment-4159709-20160212101716

108.70.1.215 wrote: Seriously guys. Some of you don't understand how universes and timelines work on this thread.

Let's start with a definition of "Earth-1". The TV shows of Arrow, Legends of Tomorrow, and Vixen have never left Earth-1. Constantine is completely cannon and takes place on "Earth-1" because the EP Wendy Mericle (of Arrow) explicity confirmed it via interview. This is probably why all of Constantine was added here. All of Season 1 of The Flash took place on "Earth-1", and I would hope it would be obvious which parts of season 2 took place on Earth-1 and which parts took place on Earth-2.

Next, a definition of "Earth-2". It has never been seen on any show besides "The Flash". It is the universe inhabited by Harry, Jesse Wells, Jay Garrick, Killer Frost, Zoom, etc etc. On this Earth, Atlantis never sunk and there was a war called The War of the Americas (which sounds awesome if you're into alternate history).

Then we have Supergirl's Earth. Let's call it Earth-S. On this Earth, National City, Metropolis, and Krypton are known to exist (along with Martians). On Earth-S, there have been no mention of metahumans, and the only superhumans aren't even humans at all. They are aliens. They first became known to the world approx 10 years ago with Superman's landing. With the exception of a multiverse/breach vision on The Flash's "Welcome to Earth-2", only Supergirl has shown footage of Earth-S.

Now, some people are convinced that these different Earths are not Earths at all, just different timelines in the same universe. This is not true. In Legends of Tomorrow, they change the timeline all the time, and Rip Hunter has explicitly stated that they can overwrite history and delete the timeline they previously knew. In Pilot Part 2, a peice of technology from Ray Palmer's suit gets discarded in 1975. Later, Rip reveals that his timeship has picked up a "forcast" of the future. In this forcast, Central City has been destroyed by Vandal Savage in 2016 using Ray's technology. He notes that the team has approx 24hrs to reclaim the peice of suit from Savage or else "this will cease to be a forcast, and become history." This heavily implies that "timelines" are overwritten and deleted. For example, the timeline in which Barry's mother is never killed has been replaced with the current timeline, which has "become history" in Rip's words. Some people claim that Cisco's ability to vibe his death at the hands of Thawne is proof that that timielinie was never deleted. EXCEPT, it was later stated that Cisco has the ability to vibe events which happened in erased/dead timelines. People have stated that since Thawne returned after being "erased from existance", that he must have come from "a different timeline". No. It was stated by Wells that he is an echo from the "past". He has not killed Barry's mother yet and was in the middle of traveling back to 2016 long before he was erased from existance in 2015 (very complicated). In a TL;DR version, it is explicitly stated that he is merely an echo and that he was shrouded by the Speed Force, which is an extra-dimensional entity and is immune to time changes.

Also, to keep implying that time travel creates new "Earths" (which has been expressed in this very thread) would imply that the Legends create new Earth not only with each new time jump, but with each tiny alteration to the timeline. EVEN IF THEY UNDO IT. This means that the Legends are in Earth-152 by now. That makes no sense and is impracticle from a TV point of view. That would make for an unessessarily complicated story.

Here's how it works: Each universe has one timeline that can be changed via time travel. A universe is an "Earth". Earth-1 has a timeline. If you time travel (as the Legends are doing), you can change the timeline. It will fight you, but you can change it. Earth-2 has a timeline. That timeline is EXTREMELY similar to Earth-1 and is akin to alternate history. Theoretically, you could time travel within Earth-2 and change its timeline, creating an even more bizarre present. Earth-S has a timeline. Theoretically, you could time travel and change it. Each universe is like a bubble. This is also clearly visually depicted via the breach vision in "Welcome to Earth-2". Search "multiverse bubble theory" for clarification. It has been stated over and over again by EPs and comic books alike that the multiverse uses the bubble theory in this context.

Prior to s2 of The Flash, the "Arrowverse" was just Earth-1. Legends, Vixen, and Constantine do nothing to change that. Since Earth-2 heavily parralells Earth-1, and everybody has a doppelganger there, Earth-2 should really be included in the "Arrowverse", even though they are seperate 2 universes. But, Earth-S might be a little different.

When you think about it, Earth-1 and 2 must be astonishingly alike. Since everybody has a doppelganger, that means everybody's parents still got together despite having different historical events influencing them. Anybody who knows anyhting about the butterfly effect can really appreciate the gravity of what I'm saying. But the Earths of the Arrowverse and Earth-S dont seem to have as much in common. It's heavily implied that Metropolis and National City don't exist in the Arrowverse. (Thnk of Metropolis as NYC. I bring up NYC at least once a month in casual conversation. We've followed our Arrowverse characters going on FOUR YEARS, and not once have the cities come up). There are no metahumans on Earth-S, which means several events following Harrison Wells and STAR Labs never fell into place. In a DC universe, these events are significant. On Earth-S, several events on Mars took place, while Mars is presumably cold and dead and contained no alien life in the Arrowverse Earths. In the Arrowverse Earths, no events relating to Krypton (a massive interstellar empire) take place. This distances Earth-S from Earths-1&2 in a big way. Earth-S contains a vastly different history.

So, to sum this up, I believe that we sould qualify the March 28th episode as a "special episode" of The Flash, create a character page with episode-only info on each character that The Flash interacts with, and create an episode page. We can link the rest to the Supergirl Wiki, which is brilliant justl ike this one is. The Supergirl Wiki should proably do the same thing. The wikis could merge, but this is a completly different situation than Constantine. Constantine's events were revealed to have taken place in the Earth-1 continuity parralel to Arrow and The Flash's events circa 2014. It did no dimensional jumping (I mean, they went to Hell realms and stuff, but . . .), no time travel, and no screwing with physics. It had no spinoff shows attatched to it and it was very small. It was only linked to the events we follow on the CW by a total of 15 mins of screentime, but the events exist in our main universe, so we have to chronicle them on the wiki. Supergirl does not share that same status. I would love it if Earth-S and Earth-1 crossed over frequently, and if they did then we should merge with the Supergirl Wiki, but until then it would be a little odd to have Supergirl here, yet we never see her on the CW/vice versa. Thank you. I have been trying to explain that in this thread and it's nice to have support.