Board Thread:The Flash discussions/@comment-9346948-20161207015203/@comment-27700324-20161213050219

Kagemamoru wrote: Xandermcc wrote: Kagemamoru wrote: Xandermcc wrote: Kagemamoru wrote: Xandermcc wrote: Kagemamoru wrote: Xandermcc wrote: WildThing228 wrote: Steven Bomb 17 wrote: Yay Wally is now Barry's protege! This is an important part of the Barry Allen story. Also is Iris gonna be ok? And who's the traitor? remeber when cisco vibed Killer frost and him as Vibe. Maybe the vision is our answer. also probably cisco is the traitor and caitlin is the friend in the vision. because if your recall this show is full of surprises Why does everyone want Cisco to turn evil. Despite having suprises, they follow the canon. In the comics Vibe is good and Killer Frost is evil. "they follow the canon"

Sorry, did you watch season 2? Yes i did, lets see some of the similarities.

1. The White emblem

2. Multiple earths with an old timey feel to E2 with a bit of future tech.

3. Zoom wanting to make the Flash into a better hero by killing his loved ones.

4. Iconic characters such as Killer Frost, Jesse Quick, and Jay Garrick.

5. Vibe gaining his powers as he learns to be a superhero.

6. Wally doing the same.

7. The recreation of the Flash of two worlds storyline.

8. Flashpoint was created.

9. Henry Allen flirting with Dr Mcgee as a reference to their relationship in the 90s Flash show.

10. Deathstorm, Reverb, King Shark, and even the Turtle as villians.

1. The white emblem was confirmed when they saw the future in season 1.

2. Yes, and Earth-2 is referred to by Barry as "the one where everyone is evil". That's what stood out to him abobut it. That's also what stands out about Earth-3 in the comics. They didn't even have Jay come from Earth-2.

3. Zoom had not intention of making Barry a better hero. He wanted to make him EVIL by killing his loved ones. Also, aside from the name and dad-killed-mom backstory, this Zoom has nothing in common with comics Zoom; he was mostly just The Rival from the comics.

4. Jesse didn't become Jesse Quick until season 3. And she does it in the comics because her parents are superheroes, and her way of becoming a speedster is unique: by saying a magic fomrula. Not here, though, just a regular speedster with a gone mom and a scientist dad. Again, this Jay is from Earth-3.

5. Vibe gained his powers and learned to be a gangster, not a superhero, in the comics until the Justice League came knocking.

6. Wally did not gain his powers because of the explosion in season 2, he got them because of Flashpoint and Doc Alchemy in season 3.

7. That wasn't Jay, and he didn't even have speed. They only recreated the cover of the Flash of Two Worlds comic, except Barry running at human speed and nothing threatening the fallen victim.

8. Are you saying the tv show Flashpoint was anything like the original?

9. That's a reference to another tv show, not the comic books.

10. King Shark was never a mutated human or from another world. He was also only a Flash villain in the Injustice video game's comic book. Reverb was Vibe's little brother, and a superhero, not a villain. Deathstorm was Martin Stein fused with a corpse, not Ronnie Raymond. And they amalgameted the Turtle with Turtle Man, and made him a killer instead of a imple thief. So they still showed the symbol here.

You got to change some things with comic book shows when it comes to characters that are ridiculous and can be used to make better stories than the comics.

May i remind you that Zoom's definition of hero and villian is different than most.

Yes! TV Flashpoint was like the original. They just got rid of the Justice League and shortened it.

Zolomon was pretending to be Jay and they did a cool cover recreation with him.

The 1990s Flash show is technically a part of the DC universe.

Once again changes should be made. Having a ressurected Ronnie would be stupid, plus they have not introduced the Green Lanterns. The symbol still showed up first in season 1. A lot of those things could have worked fine without being changed.

Whatever Zolomon's definition of the word "hero" is, he didn't want to make Barry into one on the show. During their first battle, he even said that all heroes end up dead, If he wanted Barry to end up dead, he would've killed him.

...No. TV Flashpoint only had a couple of similarities with the original.

They ruined that cool recreation when they decided to turn "Jay" evil. And they weren't even running at super speed.

The 1990's show is still in its own canon, separate from the comics.

I was *not* referring to Black Lantern Firestorm as Deathstorm. I was referring to the evil Earth-3 Firestorm, known as Deathstorm, which is the one they adapted into the show... Except making him Ronnie Raymond and from Earth-2. Besides... If they did the Stein-corpse thing, he would've looked like a badass flying Ghost Rider... So what? This is the first time Barry actually wears the symbol and not his future self.

I fail to see how things like Jesse having a speedster mom would work with this universe's logic.

He still wanted to make Barry into who he believes could be the fastest man alive by killing his loved ones.

Let's see... Barry saves his mom. He runs into a world where Iris doesn't love him. Thawne taunts him on how it's his fault. He tries to help an alcoholic father. An iconic hero dies from his actions. He runs back and the entire timeline has been changed. Characters change alignments and gain new abilities. Characters are deleted from continuity. The only thing that isn't the same is that the Justice League are not involved and the other Earths are not affected by Flashpoint.

So i guess that makes other earth characters like Jay Garrick non-canon?

Well they kinda did the Earth-3 Deathstorm good. They couldn't do a corpse thing though cause the Black Lanterns have not been introduced yet.

Future Barry is still Barry.

It would work fine with this universe's logic. They had Jay Garrick of Earth-3 without giving him a backstory or anything, so why couldn't they do the same with Liberty Belle?

His entire plan (before deciding to destroy the multiverse) was make Barry faster to take his speed so HE would be the fastest man alive. Also, even if he did want Barry to be the fastest, that's still a departure from making him a better hero.

You're mingling the New 52 into this. No iconic hero died in TV Flashpoint. Barry somehow built some sort of speed dampening cage to keep Thawne in without explanation. Iris does begin to love him and they go on a date. There was no character alignment changes after Flashpoint. And here, the Rival came out of nowhere as a sudden archenemy to Wally... Yeah, totally comics Flashpoint-accurate. By the way, this is all season 3. I thought we were talking about season 2.

Yes. Jay Garrick and the rest of the Arrow(multi)verse are non-canon to the current continuity in the DC comic books. Why wouldn't they be?

The Deathstorm of Earth-3 had nothing to do with the Black Lanterns. That was Martin Stein merging himself with a corpse, with literally no affiliation to any Lantern Corps. Not every undead villain is a Black Lantern.... Despite being Barry, we only saw brief glimpses of the suit.

Cause we can assume he was hit with the dark matter wave. Jesse's mother couldn't have unless Jesse was not born yet.

He was still being a mentor figure to him and telling him to embrace the darkness. Did you even watch Invincible?

I consider Kid Flash an iconic hero. Catlin is turning evil and Cisco is becoming a hero. The New 52 is part of Flashpoint. Iris was not with Barry at the beginning just like Flashpoint. The Rival was sorta representing the chaos caused by Wonder Woman and Aquaman in the comic. I don't know why we are talking about S3 but you started it.

What i meant is that if the 1990 earth doesn't count, then shouldn't E2 as well?

My mistake, i was confused on how E3 Deathstorm works. It still wouldn't have transferred well to the show. By making Martin dead, they kinda payed homage to it.